PM Nikol Pashinyan Drops Major Updates in an Interview on Peace Talks with Azerbaijan
In an exclusive interview with Armenian government funded media company ARMENPRESS, Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan gave a sit down interview discussing the pending peace treaty with Azerbaijan.
Armenpress: Mr. Prime Minister, in an interview with a Russian media outlet, the Azerbaijani President confirmed that 15 of the 17 articles of the Armenia-Azerbaijan peace treaty have been agreed upon, and one of the unresolved issues pertains to the non-deployment of third countries’ forces along the border, and the other to the withdrawal of lawsuits against each other in international courts. What is the stance of the Republic of Armenia in this regard?
Prime Minister Pashinyan: We continue to be constructively engaged in the discussions around the peace treaty with Azerbaijan, and we have conveyed proposals on the two outstanding articles of the peace treaty to Azerbaijan for more than a month now, and we haven’t yet had a response. We propose the article about the non-deployment of the forces of third countries to cover the delimitated parts of the Armenia-Azerbaijan border, and this is logical, because in those parts the risk of escalation is significantly decreasing if not minimizing. Therefore, after the complete delimitation, there won’t be the need for the presence of a third force in any part of the Armenia-Azerbaijan border, and the Republic of Armenia is proposing this logic. Regarding the withdrawal of lawsuits filed against each other, when a peace treaty is signed this is logical, thus, the idea is acceptable for us. There are two nuances here: one of them is that there must be an understandable prospect for bilaterally resolving the individual humanitarian issues currently under discussion in international courts, and secondly, it must be clear that after withdrawing the disputes in international platforms regarding other issues the sides shall not put forward the same issues in the bilateral relations agenda and make them a source of lasting escalations.
Armenpress: What do you mean?
Prime Minister Pashinyan: I mean that not only shall we abandon the resolution of disputes in international courts, but the disputes themselves. We are ready to take that path. At this phase we are searching for solutions also in terms of individual humanitarian matters.
Armenpress: In the same interview, the Azerbaijani President once again voiced the matter of the change of Armenian Constitution, once again claiming that it contains territorial demands against Azerbaijan.
Prime Minister Pashinyan: I’ve had several occasions to address that topic, and I find it necessary to emphasize that if this is a sincere concern expressed by Azerbaijan, all grounds exist to consider these concerns dispelled. Why? Because the allegations that the Constitution of the Republic of Armenia contains territorial demands against Azerbaijan are based on the argument that the preamble of our Constitution contains a general reference to the Declaration of Independence, which in turn mentions Nagorno-Karabakh. In its 26 September 2024 ruling, the Constitutional Court of Armenia recorded that the reference to the Declaration of Independence in the preamble of the Constitution relates exclusively to those articles of the declaration that have gained literal stipulation in the articles of the Constitution. There is neither direct nor indirect mention of Nagorno-Karabakh in any article of the Constitution of the Republic of Armenia. If we were to accept the content of the Constitution the way Azerbaijan interprets it, then a question would arise, why didn’t Karabakh participate in the 1995 Constitutional Referendum, why didn’t polling stations open there and why didn’t the people vote on the Constitution. The same can be said about the subsequent presidential and parliamentary elections in Armenia. Besides, if the Azerbaijani interpretation of the Armenian Constitution were to be accurate, then the recognition of our brothers and sisters from Karabakh as refugees by Armenia would have been impossible.
Armenpress: You had said that Armenia has concerns that the Constitution of Azerbaijan itself contains territorial demands against Armenia.
Prime Minister Pashinyan: Indeed, and this concern is based on the fact that the preamble of the Azerbaijani Constitution contains a reference to the Constitutional Act adopted by the Azerbaijani Parliament on 18 October 1991. In turn, the Constitutional Act refers to the Declaration of Independence of the First Republic of Azerbaijan adopted on 28 May 1918, which records that the First Republic of Azerbaijan includes Eastern and Southern Transcaucasia. In November 1919, the Republic of Azerbaijan presented to the Entente its administrative map, according to which, Azerbaijan included the entirety of the provinces of Syunik and Vayots Dzor of Armenia, as well as parts of the provinces of Ararat, Armavir, Gegharkunik, Tavush, Lori and Shirak of Armenia, some 60 percent of the territory of the Republic of Armenia. Thus, the Constitution of Azerbaijan contains territorial demands against the Republic of Armenia. But we are not raising an issue of changing the Constitution of Azerbaijan for two reasons, first of all such an issue would bring the Armenia-Azerbaijan peace process into a deadlock, and secondly, the agreed-upon part of the Armenia-Azerbaijan peace treaty contains an article which stipulates that the parties cannot refer to their internal legislation to justify the failure of implementation of the peace treaty. Another article of the agreed-upon part of the peace treaty says that the parties recognize each other’s territorial integrity, do not have territorial demands against each other and are bound to not make such demands in the future.
Armenpress: You mean that the concerns about the Constitution must not be the reason for not signing the peace treaty, but that the signing of the peace treaty itself will dispel these concerns?
Prime Minister Pashinyan: Definitely. And if we approach the matter from the viewpoint of the legislation of the Republic of Armenia, by our laws the peace treaty must be ratified in the National Assembly after the signing. Before that, the government must submit the treaty to the Constitutional Court to verify its compliance with the Constitution of the Republic of Armenia. If the Constitutional Court decides that the text of the peace treaty does not comply with the Constitution, although such a development is less likely after the 26 September 2024 decision, it would turn out that Azerbaijan’s arguments in this matter were correct and Armenia would have to make a choice between some articles of the Constitution and the peace treaty. But if the Constitutional Court decided that the text of the peace treaty complies with the Constitution of Armenia, it will pass the ratification process in our parliament. And according to paragraph 3 of article 5 of the Armenian Constitution, in case of conflict between the norms of international treaties ratified by the Republic of Armenia and those of laws, the norms of international treaties shall apply. Thus, after ratification in parliament, the Armenia-Azerbaijan peace treaty will gain superior legal force against laws and other normative legal acts of Armenia, and the topic of territorial demands will be closed forever. The same would happen in Azerbaijan. Meaning, it is the signing of the peace treaty that will practically dispel the concerns of both Armenia and Azerbaijan, including in relation to the constitutions.
Armenpress: And what is Armenia's stance over the idea to disband the OSCE Minsk Group?
Prime Minister Pashinyan: Constructive. We understand the stance that if there is no conflict what's the meaning of the existence of a format dealing with the conflict resolution. But we also want to be convinced that Azerbaijan is approaching this issue in this same logic, and for instance, that its motive under developing the narrative of the so-called Western Azerbaijan isn't about engaging in aggressive policy against the territory of the Republic of Armenia.
Armenpress: But Azerbaijan says that by doing so it is not making any territorial demands against Armenia, and that it is a matter of the refugees' right to return and is calling upon the government of Armenia to respond to this right.
Prime Minister Pashinyan: It is obvious that official Baku, with its narrative of the so-called Western Azerbaijan, wants to materialize its territorial demands against the Republic of Armenia, which, as I showed above, is recorded in Azerbaijan’s constitution. If that’s not the case, and if we are wrong in our perceptions, then by saying Western Azerbaijan one must understand the regions of Gazakh, Tovuz, Aghstafa, Gadabay, Dashkesan, Kelbajar, Lachin, Kubatlu and Zangelan of the Republic of Azerbaijan. Therefore, the return of the people there is the internal matter of Azerbaijan, and the government of Armenia has nothing to do or discuss here, besides the matters that it is already discussing with Azerbaijan. I mean the establishment of normal relations that would ensure, among others, the security of Azerbaijan’s western and Armenia’s eastern borders.
Armenpress: Azerbaijan is accusing Armenia of acquiring non-defensive weapons and says that Armenia will not withstand an arms race with it.
Prime Minister Pashinyan: Armenia is not engaged in an arms race with any country, we are acquiring armaments exclusively for defending Armenia’s borders and territorial integrity, meaning for defensive goals, and our goals are transparent. We are told that defensive weapons must be bought for defensive purposes. But it is impossible to organize defense only with defensive weapons. For instance, if Armenia were to have highly modern anti-air and electronic warfare measures, how would it defend itself in case of a land attack? Of course with artillery, of course with missiles, of course with other strike measures. Azerbaijan is also acquiring non-defensive weapons, does it mean that they are engaged in revanchist policy?
Armenpress: Azerbaijan is overall attempting to make the arms acquisition of Armenia a topic on the agenda.
Prime Minister Pashinyan: According to all international norms, the Republic of Armenia has the right to have armed forces and an obligation to protect its own citizens, including from possible foreign threats. The army reforms are our legitimate right. Is this a threat for Azerbaijan? No. Because we have clearly recognized and recognize the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Azerbaijan in the territory of the Soviet Azerbaijan and we expect that Azerbaijan, like us, without leaving room for misinterpretations, will recognize the territorial integrity of the Republic of Armenia, in accordance with our agreements, and will refrain from the policy of threats. Threatening statements are made from Azerbaijan to the Republic of Armenia practically every day. In such conditions our reaction even gets internal criticism, because we say that we don’t even have an objective to militarily return the over 200 square kilometers of our sovereign territory that is currently under occupation, because the institutional solutions reached in the delimitation issue enable us to resolve this issue in a peaceful, negotiated way. In this context we even offered Azerbaijan to create a bilateral mechanism of mutual arms control. But Azerbaijan hasn’t responded so far, while the difference of the military budgets of Armenia and Azerbaijan is threefold, in Azerbaijan’s favor. Accusing us of acquiring armaments in such conditions is not fair, to say the least.
Armenpress: And how would you assess the risk of renewed escalation in the region?
Prime Minister Pashinyan: I can guarantee that Armenia has no intention, goals or plans to attack or engage in any provocative actions against Azerbaijan, and that it will not take that path. If Azerbaijan also doesn’t have intentions to attack Armenia, then the likelihood of escalation in the region is zero.
Mr. Prime Minister, will the delimitation process go on? If yes, in which section?
Prime Minister Pashinyan: The regulations of the delimitation commissions are ratified in both Armenia and Azerbaijan, which means that the delimitation process must continue. I think the delimitation commissions will meet soon to discuss in which section the delimitation shall continue. We are ready for constructive work in this matter as well.
Armenpress: And what about the issue of regional connections. Azerbaijan continues to develop its narrative of a so-called corridor.
Prime Minister Pashinyan: We assess that we have found a solution on how to reopen railway connection for it to be fully acceptable for both Armenia and Azerbaijan. And we have conveyed the offer of this solution in a written form to Azerbaijan and we are waiting for their positive response. When this reaction happens, it will be necessary to swiftly sign an agreement and start the construction of the railway.
